>>“Do you know of any churches where the elders willingly present themselves before the church on a regular basis”
yes I have met good functioning elders and bad ones as well..
in love submit one to another…
According to my reading of the scriptures the term Pastor is always plural, not singular, meaning there are too be many pastors in any local church, and pastors have to submit to the gifted elders, who are the apostles- missionaries and prophets- appointed by God as his spokesman – the NT Greek verb is continually present- meaning God continues to give these men ( or women – such as Junia note worthy amongst the apostles) unto the church now as well , but most pastors tend to deny the existance of these God ordained, given offices even today, even cause they themsrlves are rebels who wrongfully refuse to submit to other’s and submission is mutal- meaning reciprocal.. and also note this it is still voluntarily, unenforceable..
It seems also that lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, pornography, alcoholism, slander, gosspipng, etc., is something that too many pastors also cannot give up on these days too.
Now it was interesting I had met this really crooked head elder and head deacon in a Baptist church, not just in the Pentecostal churches, where there too their elders and deacons, tend to be pretentious ones too ( for when was the last time you saw an elder giving food, money to the poor persons in the church as was done in the book of Acts?) .. even such as the one who was an elder and owned a bar that served alcohol of all things.. and told me if I come to his church he would call the police against me, but the same church I next helped to close down, I had the federal government remove their tax exempt license after I had exposed in writing to news editors, elected officials too their much too many unacceptable abuses, money thefts, slanders, etc.,
the Baptist pastor had cheated, for he had short circuited the selection process, he had the nominating committee before any selection submit the names to him for his prior approval of their supposedly spiritual qualifications and he elected his bad friends.. one Sunday evening as I was leaving the church and shaking hands with the pastor, he unexpectedly said to me ” this is my church and if you do not like it get out”.. shocked and surprised I said to the pastor if I have offended you let me meet you this week Tuesday night and you can bring any two witnesses you ant as well and we can discuss the matter. he agreed and I knew that he would bring the head elder and the head deacons.. as I walked into the pastor’s office on Tuesday day night, the founding church pastor said immediately to me wipe the smirk of your face.. so I immediately said.. hey pastor let us make this quick, Did you or did you not say to me this is my church and if you do not like it get out? you should have seen the shock on the deacon and elder’s face. The pastor seeing this too next said you cannot hear any charges form this man for I am a senior and if you listen to him I will resign. I said pastor if you want to resign, do so, but cut of the emotional black main and answer the question.. he resigned instead, and became a life insurance salesman rather next..
now I still had a problem with the crooked head elder.. so I tried to first talk to him about his immoral acts and lack of spirituality, he admitted he had no time to read the Bible even.. but it was useless for he laughed me off. So next the elder came to see me and said you know when you told everyone about my lack of spirituality it did not bother me, it was your word against mine, but when you next had put it in writing to all to see it hurt.. and I said back to him.. is that what it takes to cause you to rightfully repent? seems people tend to believe the truth only if it is in wring these days.. and ever since that day I have also next been posting unacceptable, unrepented of sins of many pastors and elder on the net but few repented, less than 5 percent next, some even moved rather out of town instead.. many were rightfully fired next.
(Gal 6:1 KJV) Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
(Gal 6:2 KJV) Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
(Gal 6:3 KJV) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
(Gal 6:4 KJV) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
(Gal 6:5 KJV) For every man shall bear his own burden.
(Gal 6:7 KJV) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
(Gal 6:8 KJV) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
(Gal 6:9 KJV) And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
(Gal 6:10 KJV) As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
(Lev 19:17 KJV) Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
(Psa 104:7 KJV) At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
(Prov 9:8 KJV) Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
(Prov 13:1 KJV) A wise son heareth his father’s instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.
(Prov 24:25 KJV) But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.
(Prov 27:5 KJV) Open rebuke is better than secret love.
(Eccl 7:5 KJV) It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.
(Isa 66:15 KJV) For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
(Jer 15:15 KJV) O LORD, thou knowest: remember me, and visit me, and revenge me of my persecutors; take me not away in thy longsuffering: know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke.
(Luke 17:3 KJV) Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
(Phil 2:15 KJV) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
(1 Tim 5:1 KJV) Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
(1 Tim 5:20 KJV) Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
(2 Tim 4:2 KJV) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
(Titus 1:13 KJV) This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
(Titus 2:15 KJV) These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
(Rev 3:19 KJV) As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Now can a bad pastor rightfully fire a good or bad deacon, meaning often a non functioningg , pretentious elder?
Bad people try to do many things.. if others let them do it as well..
Bad pastors, bad elders continue to exist cause likley the congregation is bad too.
I have yet to see a Bible verse saying the local church is solely to be run by one man, one pastor too.. for that matter! and not the elders of that Church..